Making item lists.

Topics: Retired
Feb 11, 2008 at 12:27 PM
I have been using Rawr since reaching lvl68, and now I'm clearing Kara, so no, I'm not a high end raider. Anyway, I though I'd post my ideas, perhaps they give you some help/ideas... Thanks for an excellent application!


I like to have a printed list of possible upgrades for all slots, so I know what may drop from a boss, and how I can upgrade specific slots for my gear.
What I do is use Rawr to find good gear. The problem for me is that there are quite a few upgrades for every slot.
The reason for this list is twofold. It's good to have a paper next to the computer since I don't have two screens. And Rawr is a bit slow to use when an item drops and I want to see if it's an upgrade or not.


1) Items can have different gems. Right now Rawr displays several copies of the same item (with different gems). That makes the list very long. Would it be possible to have a setting that makes Rawr only display items with gems according to a default scheme (like the way Item Editor->Fill Sockets work). That would make the list shorter. The setting should be togglable so it's possible to see all variations too.

2) Items are acuired in different ways. The most common ways are:
*) Drop from one boss in instance X.
*) Sold by vendor for a token that is dropped from one boss in instance X (like the T4 tokens)
*) Sold by vendor for a Badge of Justice
*) Questreward where quest is strictly tied to instance X (eg. Violet badge for Kara rep)
*) Quest other than the above
*) BoE in instance X.
*) BoE World drop
*) BoE in several raid instances.
*) Other ways.

Would it be possible to classify the items to one of the above categories, and have some setting for which acuire types we want to see? Like:
I want to see items that are:
*) From instance (including drops, quests, tokens, BoE) and multi-choice list with (normal instances, heroic instances, Kara, SSCGruulMagtheridon, ZA, HS, BT).
*) Items sold for Badge of Justice.
*) World quests

3) If 2) is possible, would it be possible to have a mode in Rawr which doesn't cut the gear by slot - but instead by instance. If I'm going to Gruul what items are interesting for me?

4) It would be nice if the Rawr GUI was resizable. That would allow the lists to be longer (display more items at once)... Scaling in the x direction could just increase the size of the red and blue bars.

5) As posted in another thread... For those that just hit lvl70 threat is a big issue. It would be nice to display the dps/threat value for items as well in some way. Looking at the page http://www.emmerald.net/Bear_Mitigation/Chest.html it's very clear what each item contributes for dps. Just wanted to show my support for that.

6) Reading http://www.wowwiki.com/Formulas:Rage_generation it seems that the rage I gain is affected by my mitigation and dps. It would be nice if Rawr could display that as a value in some form. When I just turned 70 I had to focus a lot on dps and survivability and less on mitigation since I often ended up rage starved so I couldn't hold aggro. Less mitigation gave me more rage...

7) When loading upgrades from the armory, please provide a progress bar and a cancel button. Oh and separate the GUI thread from the thread that loads stuff from the armory. Having a locked down app isn't nice.

8) Make a menu function: Update this profile from the armory.

9) Make it easier to load recent files. Personally I have 2 different profiles, but I guess some people will have a few more.

10) When Rawr fails to get data from the Armory once. Abort the whole load from armory-process. There's no point in trying to load upgrades for all gear slots if the armory is down.

11) The mouse over-feature for some text info in the "Complex Stats" list is slighty annoying. The tool tip disapears after like 6 seconds, and that's not enough to read the whole text. Perhaps some other solution? (I run Win2003 if that's an issue)

12) Add survival and mitigation values to the different enchants.

13) Display the contribution to mitigation and survival for 1 str, 1 armor, 1 agi, 1 def, ... (based on the current gear).

14) In Basic Stats, include Str, Int, and resistances.


All I can think of right now... ;-)

Coordinator
Feb 11, 2008 at 4:54 PM
Wow, thanks for the great feedback! Sometime today I hope to have a chance to respond in detail, busy with work at the moment, but wanted to say thanks quick :)
Coordinator
Feb 11, 2008 at 10:16 PM


I like to have a printed list of possible upgrades for all slots, so I know what may drop from a boss, and how I can upgrade specific slots for my gear.
What I do is use Rawr to find good gear. The problem for me is that there are quite a few upgrades for every slot.
The reason for this list is twofold. It's good to have a paper next to the computer since I don't have two screens. And Rawr is a bit slow to use when an item drops and I want to see if it's an upgrade or not.

Some sort of printable list of gear has been a common request, and I'd really like to do it. I don't know exactly how to make it work at the moment, but I'm tossing around some ideas.


1) Items can have different gems. Right now Rawr displays several copies of the same item (with different gems). That makes the list very long. Would it be possible to have a setting that makes Rawr only display items with gems according to a default scheme (like the way Item Editor->Fill Sockets work). That would make the list shorter. The setting should be togglable so it's possible to see all variations too.

Another common request, and rightfully so: some sort of better handling of gems. There's lots of ways to handle gems; it's a very complex system. The current implementation is at least functional, and allows you to make the choices yourself with relative ease, but it certainly is something of a hassle, and clutters up the graphs with bad gem selections. This is another one where I'm tossing around ideas, but don't have a good answer quite yet.


2) Items are acuired in different ways. The most common ways are:
*) Drop from one boss in instance X.
*) Sold by vendor for a token that is dropped from one boss in instance X (like the T4 tokens)
*) Sold by vendor for a Badge of Justice
*) Questreward where quest is strictly tied to instance X (eg. Violet badge for Kara rep)
*) Quest other than the above
*) BoE in instance X.
*) BoE World drop
*) BoE in several raid instances.
*) Other ways.

Right now that's handled by the Open in Wowhead link. The Armory returns a "Source" value for each item, but it's almost always vague and unhelpful. Right now there just isn't the data aggregated well enough to support including a useful 'source' field... Much more reliable to just Open in Wowhead. If this changes, I'd be happy to implement it in Rawr.


Would it be possible to classify the items to one of the above categories, and have some setting for which acuire types we want to see? Like:
I want to see items that are:
*) From instance (including drops, quests, tokens, BoE) and multi-choice list with (normal instances, heroic instances, Kara, SSCGruulMagtheridon, ZA, HS, BT).
*) Items sold for Badge of Justice.
*) World quests

Same as above


3) If 2) is possible, would it be possible to have a mode in Rawr which doesn't cut the gear by slot - but instead by instance. If I'm going to Gruul what items are interesting for me?

Same as above


4) It would be nice if the Rawr GUI was resizable. That would allow the lists to be longer (display more items at once)... Scaling in the x direction could just increase the size of the red and blue bars.

Indeed, resizing the GUI is an attractive idea. The only reason I have it not resizable is because there'd be a big ugly blank area on the lower left side of the window. I'll toy with it, perhaps it's worth being resizable anyway.


5) As posted in another thread... For those that just hit lvl70 threat is a big issue. It would be nice to display the dps/threat value for items as well in some way. Looking at the page http://www.emmerald.net/Bear_Mitigation/Chest.html it's very clear what each item contributes for dps. Just wanted to show my support for that.

Indeed, a threat component is planned for Rawr, but I don't have anything to show on it yet.


6) Reading http://www.wowwiki.com/Formulas:Rage_generation it seems that the rage I gain is affected by my mitigation and dps. It would be nice if Rawr could display that as a value in some form. When I just turned 70 I had to focus a lot on dps and survivability and less on mitigation since I often ended up rage starved so I couldn't hold aggro. Less mitigation gave me more rage...

Well in effect, it already does. Rage gained from getting hit is simply a matter of how much damage you take. So that would be the % of Total Damage Taken field in Rawr.

On a side note, if you're ever ragestarved, it's most likely due to one of two things:
A) You're way overgeared for the mobs; switch to more dps gear.
B) You're using Maul; stop using Maul. Maul is only for burst threat when you've got extra rage to burn.


7) When loading upgrades from the armory, please provide a progress bar and a cancel button. Oh and separate the GUI thread from the thread that loads stuff from the armory. Having a locked down app isn't nice.

A progress bar is certainly an option, as is a cancel button. Making it asynchronous, on the other hand... Why? What would you expect to be able to do in the UI, while it's contacting the Armory? You pretty much couldn't do anything.


8) Make a menu function: Update this profile from the armory.

adds to his todo list


9) Make it easier to load recent files. Personally I have 2 different profiles, but I guess some people will have a few more.

Indeed. I've got 6 different profiles myself, and have been meaning to do this for a while. :)


10) When Rawr fails to get data from the Armory once. Abort the whole load from armory-process. There's no point in trying to load upgrades for all gear slots if the armory is down.

For many users, especially in the EU, armory failures like that are intermittant. A 2nd try commonly does work. I think if there's a cancel button, your problem with it would be solved.


11) The mouse over-feature for some text info in the "Complex Stats" list is slighty annoying. The tool tip disapears after like 6 seconds, and that's not enough to read the whole text. Perhaps some other solution? (I run Win2003 if that's an issue)

Ugh, still? .NET's tooltips are so buggy in that regard. Thought I had it all worked out with b10, but I guess not.


12) Add survival and mitigation values to the different enchants.

Well there are graphics for each enchant slot. But I'm guessing you mean on the dropdowns where you choose an enchant, right? Yeah, it's on my list (as well as adding tooltips and context menus to the enchant graphs).


13) Display the contribution to mitigation and survival for 1 str, 1 armor, 1 agi, 1 def, ... (based on the current gear).

Also on my list. :)


14) In Basic Stats, include Str, Int, and resistances.

Str I can do, since it tracks Str, since b10. Int still isn't being tracked though, but there's no reason it couldn't be. Just not high on my priorities yet.


All I can think of right now... ;-)

Thanks!
Feb 12, 2008 at 12:43 AM

Astrylian wrote:

1) Items can have different gems. Right now Rawr displays several copies of the same item (with different gems). That makes the list very long. Would it be possible to have a setting that makes Rawr only display items with gems according to a default scheme (like the way Item Editor->Fill Sockets work). That would make the list shorter. The setting should be togglable so it's possible to see all variations too.

Another common request, and rightfully so: some sort of better handling of gems. There's lots of ways to handle gems; it's a very complex system. The current implementation is at least functional, and allows you to make the choices yourself with relative ease, but it certainly is something of a hassle, and clutters up the graphs with bad gem selections. This is another one where I'm tossing around ideas, but don't have a good answer quite yet.


Just an idea I got while reading; how about making a menu for the item lists where you can choose what kind of gems you want to view?
Like you can choose to only show the version of the item with the gems that gives best overall points, best mitigation, best survival, maybe even a sertain stat? like only show the item with sta gems or agi gems. And if so you would have to be able to choose what "level" of gems you had access to. If you are no where near BT and MH there is no point in including the gems from there in the calculations.
I'm not sure how this would work with the system as it is now since this would require all items to be calculated with all combinations of gems... but the feature would be awsome if done right:)
Btw, Rawr is working fine again now after your tip on my screen settings! Thx a lot:D
Feb 12, 2008 at 8:21 AM


Some sort of printable list of gear has been a common request, and I'd really like to do it. I don't know exactly how to make it work at the moment, but I'm tossing around some ideas.


I have been using Excel for that. I'm not saying that Rawr should export a list. I'm just saying how I work with it.


Right now that's handled by the Open in Wowhead link. The Armory returns a "Source" value for each item, but it's almost always vague and unhelpful. Right now there just isn't the data aggregated well enough to support including a useful 'source' field... Much more reliable to just Open in Wowhead. If this changes, I'd be happy to implement it in Rawr.

Just looking at the HTML source from wowhead, I can easily see the "new Listview({template: 'quest', id: 'reward-from'" part of the page, which indicates that it's a quest.
Or the "new Listview({template: 'npc', id: 'dropped-by', name: 'Dropped by', tabs: tabsRelated, parent: 'lkljbjkb574', hiddenCols: 'type', extraCols: Listview.extraCols.count, Listview.extraCols.percent, sort:'-percent', 'name', computeDataFunc: Listview.funcBox.initLootTable, data: {id:19044,name:'Gruul the Dragonkiller',minlevel:9999,maxlevel:9999,location:[3618],react:[-1,-1],type:7,classification:3,count:950,outof:8460}});" which says it's dropped by Gruul.

Not sure what you meant by the "Open in Wowhead link"


Well in effect, it already does. Rage gained from getting hit is simply a matter of how much damage you take. So that would be the % of Total Damage Taken field in Rawr.

On a side note, if you're ever ragestarved, it's most likely due to one of two things:
A) You're way overgeared for the mobs; switch to more dps gear.
B) You're using Maul; stop using Maul. Maul is only for burst threat when you've got extra rage to burn.


I really had problems with choosing between becoming rage starved or loosing aggro when I had just turned lvl70. It may have been due to me getting lots of good mitigation gear (like Braxxis, full heavy clefthhof set, etc) - and nothing to give me aggro. That changed drastically when I got the Earthwarden which actually does some damage.


A progress bar is certainly an option, as is a cancel button. Making it asynchronous, on the other hand... Why? What would you expect to be able to do in the UI, while it's contacting the Armory? You pretty much couldn't do anything.


The advantage of having the GUI in a separate thread is that it
1) Won't display as a white window that's not movable and just looks bugged.
2) The Windows task manager doesn't display the application as "Not responding".



Indeed. I've got 6 different profiles myself, and have been meaning to do this for a while. :)


Just the standard way of having old profiles appear on the File menu would be fine.



Ugh, still? .NET's tooltips are so buggy in that regard. Thought I had it all worked out with b10, but I guess not.


Sorry... but yes, I'm using b10.



Thanks!

You're welcome. It's my small contribution to make a great application even better! :-)
Coordinator
Feb 12, 2008 at 4:01 PM
Rawr uses the Armory for its data source, not Wowhead. You're probably missing the right-click on any item. There are several things you can do by right-clicking on an item, including opening it in wowhead.
Feb 29, 2008 at 8:50 PM
If you're just gearing up, using Rawr might be overkill. There are probably a number of easy upgrades (crafted, PvP, instance drops, etc.) that you can obtain quickly. You might have better luck printing out Emmerald's list (http://www.emmerald.net/)or using LootRank (http://www.lootrank.com) to list possible gear upgrades. A combination of the two might work best: take the stat weights from Emmerald's list and then plug them into LootRank.