Rawr.ProtPaladin Roncli MIA?

Topics: Rawr.ProtPaladin
Jan 30, 2011 at 5:07 AM

Just curious if this model is being updated with roncli being missing in action for over a month. There was a lot of progression done to the model and it has all seem to come to a dead stop. If you could just let me know if there is an ETA on the model being cata ready or someone else is working on the model in his absense that would be helpful.

~Cantholdagro

Developer
Jan 31, 2011 at 4:15 PM

Roncli is out for a bit but he will be back.

Developer
Feb 7, 2011 at 8:22 PM
Mamma MIA! I finally got a break in the action, so I gave ProtPaladin some love this weekend. Stats should be correct, and the only issue I'm aware of has to do with threat with Seal of Truth. If there are any other issues, please file them as issues. I've cleaned out my RSS inbox, so I should be pretty responsive to them again.
Feb 7, 2011 at 9:31 PM

Roncli, I think there is an issue with the Block/Perry/Dodge math, or its display on the Stats page.  I will look into it deeper tonight, and if I am correct, I will post a new Issue.

Developer
Feb 7, 2011 at 11:10 PM

I don't think my changes made the latest build, so either use the source or test it out in the next release. :)

Feb 15, 2011 at 1:04 AM
Edited Feb 15, 2011 at 1:34 AM

I just tested the ProtPaladin module today.. And I've been surprised!

Why Agility, Crit and haste is so high? I see a necklace with Agility, crit, haste is higher than a necklace with a lot of mastery and dodge.

Maybe I missed a post on EJ but Mastery, Dodge, Parry still the avoidance stats for tanks, no?

I understand a choice of Agility, Mastery, Dodge/Parry VS Strength, Mastery, Dodge/Parry with same value on stats; But it's not the case

Developer
Feb 15, 2011 at 1:57 AM

There's a bug up for that, Seal of Truth seems to be quite a bit threat heavy.  I haven't figured the cause yet.

Feb 16, 2011 at 12:02 AM

You don't implement the self-heal capacities? Seal of Insight and Glyph of WoG and Insight?

Developer
Feb 16, 2011 at 12:11 AM

In a tanking model, no, because they aren't part of your survivability or mitigation scores. That's why we don't model Hp5 either.

Feb 16, 2011 at 12:13 AM

Ok, thanks for your answer :)

Developer
Feb 16, 2011 at 8:33 AM

The problem for prot pala is that the self-healing builds are in wide use, even in progress raids.  Self healing through SoI and WoG, and the shield from WoG may not be actual survival or mitigation since they're effects, but they do work to make a paladin tank easier to heal than another tank.

With this many people actually speccing into 'wogger' builds, I'm not sure it would be right for rawr to entirely disregard this particular approach to protpala.  Whether or not wogger specs will continue to be viable in next tiers is an entirely different matter of course that we can't possibly predict.

Developer
Feb 16, 2011 at 12:33 PM

Well, if we think about it less like a heal, and more like say savage defense, it makes more sense.  Treating it more like savage defense may be the best idea, and is at least plausible.  

And yes, I do understand that WoG is NOT an absorb, and savage defense IS.  Perhaps that is where the shortfall lies, as both do the same function, make you live longer and also make you need less healing.  

Feb 16, 2011 at 12:38 PM

Wogger spec is like Savage defense, yes. All overhealing create an absorb shield.

I agree OReubens and Antivyris. WoG healing is a large part of survivability for a protpaladin.

Developer
Feb 16, 2011 at 3:57 PM
Edited Feb 16, 2011 at 4:00 PM

if its creating an absorb shield and you can determine with  reasonable accuracy how big and how often its being made then use the damage absorb stat already in place in modelling.

The point is, and I admit I havent looked into the details here, anything reactive to damage that restores health isnt survivability in a tank model. Like the Blood Ward enchant, it heals you affter you take the damage. So if you had taken a large enough single hit, it wouldnt fire because you died.

I can go over this more when Im not typing from my phone.

Developer
Feb 16, 2011 at 4:38 PM

Taking this discussion offline with the Devs involved for now. We'll report back when we come to a solution on this.

Feb 19, 2011 at 1:28 AM
Edited Feb 19, 2011 at 1:28 AM
Jothay wrote:

if its creating an absorb shield and you can determine with  reasonable accuracy how big and how often its being made then use the damage absorb stat already in place in modelling.

The point is, and I admit I havent looked into the details here, anything reactive to damage that restores health isnt survivability in a tank model. Like the Blood Ward enchant, it heals you affter you take the damage. So if you had taken a large enough single hit, it wouldnt fire because you died.

I can go over this more when Im not typing from my phone.

It's the problem. The swogger spec is special. When you cast WoG, it heal you. All overheal is converted to a shield who absorb damage for the montant of the overheal.

But it's true. It's not accurate and modelable.

 

Sorry for my poor english :)