Comments for b13.1

Topics: Retired
Apr 7, 2008 at 11:18 PM
My thoughts after a few hours of using b13.1

Optimizer
=========
Doesn't do what I want it to do.
I'm a feral tank. Among my gear I have T4 Shoulders and Gloves. The T4 Shoulders have a +defence enchant.
When I try to optimize my gear for kitty dps, I can't seem to say that the T4 shoulders have the +defence enchant, and that my other shoulders have the +crit enchant. It's not an option to change enchant on my T4 shoulders, since I'm primarily a tank.
However, I wonder if it's still worth it to use the T4 Shouders with +defence enchant in order to get the set bonus.

Almost same thing with gems. Here I want to select one item to use with the optimizer, but Rawr just wants to select all items with the same id (but with different gems) for optimization. I have some items gemmed with +stamina and +defence gems. I can't change gems on them, but still want to include them as possible items for kitty gear.


Where items come from
=====================
It would be nice to be able to use that information. For example, find upgrades for me from SSC (regardless of slot). Or find upgrades for me from everything except for BT/MH/Sunwell (one slot at a time, as Rawr normally works).


Fill sockets
==========
It would be nice to be able to remove all items with gems, but keep one of each item with empty sockets. I have 11 copies of Thunderheart Cover in Rawr right now...
Then be able to fill (and make copies as follows) (selection which to fill this time):
1) All sockets filled with this gem: select one gem and a meta gem.
2) Sockets filled according to color, with these gems (as Rawr works right now).
3) Add gemmed items I'm wearing right now.


Value of Stats
============
Show what one value of stamina, agility, AP, armor penetration, etc is worth to me.


Strange start
===========
When I started Rawr b13.1 I had copied my character xml-files from b12.1
When I started up Rawr the list view (right pane) was just a big red cross. No matter what I selected, it didn't work.
In the end I used Tools->Update Item Cache, and then restarted Rawr. After that everything seemed to work.
Bug?

Those are my initial thoughts!
Keep up the good work!
Coordinator
Apr 7, 2008 at 11:33 PM
Edited Apr 7, 2008 at 11:34 PM
Thanks for all the comments!


Optimizer
=========
Doesn't do what I want it to do.
I'm a feral tank. Among my gear I have T4 Shoulders and Gloves. The T4 Shoulders have a +defence enchant.
When I try to optimize my gear for kitty dps, I can't seem to say that the T4 shoulders have the +defence enchant, and that my other shoulders have the +crit enchant. It's not an option to change enchant on my T4 shoulders, since I'm primarily a tank.
However, I wonder if it's still worth it to use the T4 Shouders with +defence enchant in order to get the set bonus.

Almost same thing with gems. Here I want to select one item to use with the optimizer, but Rawr just wants to select all items with the same id (but with different gems) for optimization. I have some items gemmed with +stamina and +defence gems. I can't change gems on them, but still want to include them as possible items for kitty gear.

You're looking for very specific item vs item comparisons, which is not what the Optimizer is for. For very specific [this item with this enchant with these gems] vs [that item with that enchant with those gems], just try it and see. The Optimizer is for finding the Optimal set of gear, given what's available to you.



Where items come from
=====================
It would be nice to be able to use that information. For example, find upgrades for me from SSC (regardless of slot). Or find upgrades for me from everything except for BT/MH/Sunwell (one slot at a time, as Rawr normally works).

We're working on adding some sort of filtering by source location, but the data just isn't there to support it yet. We're hopeful for something like this in a future version, but it depends on getting better data from the Armory, or WowDBhead exposing their data.


Fill sockets
==========
It would be nice to be able to remove all items with gems, but keep one of each item with empty sockets. I have 11 copies of Thunderheart Cover in Rawr right now...
Then be able to fill (and make copies as follows) (selection which to fill this time):
1) All sockets filled with this gem: select one gem and a meta gem.
2) Sockets filled according to color, with these gems (as Rawr works right now).
3) Add gemmed items I'm wearing right now.

There are alot of ideas on how to better handle gems, for sure. The current way is very verbose, cluttered. However making many changes to the gem system has a ton of implications to it, and we could easily make it worse. So we won't be changing much with gemmings until we've got a really solid solution that everyone understands and finds easy. That said, a sort of mass delete and recreate specific gemmings wouldn't be out of the question, and could actually be quite viable... I'll see what I can do for next release.


Value of Stats
============
Show what one value of stamina, agility, AP, armor penetration, etc is worth to me.

There are charts for this for both bear and cat.


Strange start
===========
When I started Rawr b13.1 I had copied my character xml-files from b12.1
When I started up Rawr the list view (right pane) was just a big red cross. No matter what I selected, it didn't work.
In the end I used Tools->Update Item Cache, and then restarted Rawr. After that everything seemed to work.
Bug?

Definitely a bug, but I'm not sure what causes it, yet. If you're just using character xmls from previous versions, that should be totally fine. If you can use a freshly installed copy of b13.1, and open a character from 12.1 and make that happen, I'd love to see that character file. Also, the log file that Rawr writes might be helpful, after seeing the big red X and then closing Rawr.


Thanks a ton for all your comments!
Apr 8, 2008 at 5:57 AM


You're looking for very specific item vs item comparisons, which is not what the Optimizer is for. For very specific [this item with this enchant with these gems] vs [that item with that enchant with those gems], just try it and see. The Optimizer is for finding the Optimal set of gear, given what's available to you.


Not really. To make my situation worse I have several pieces of T4. Some have bad enchants, some have good enchants.
And for those gear slots I have some other dps gear. Trying every permutation of gear and writing down the total DPS points from Rawr is what I hoped to not have to do. I will most likely use 2 pieces of T4, but I'm not sure, and I don't know which.



Value of Stats
============
Show what one value of stamina, agility, AP, armor penetration, etc is worth to me.

There are charts for this for both bear and cat.

Oh, where? I must be blind...


Strange start
===========
When I started Rawr b13.1 I had copied my character xml-files from b12.1
When I started up Rawr the list view (right pane) was just a big red cross. No matter what I selected, it didn't work.
In the end I used Tools->Update Item Cache, and then restarted Rawr. After that everything seemed to work.
Bug?

Definitely a bug, but I'm not sure what causes it, yet. If you're just using character xmls from previous versions, that should be totally fine. If you can use a freshly installed copy of b13.1, and open a character from 12.1 and make that happen, I'd love to see that character file. Also, the log file that Rawr writes might be helpful, after seeing the big red X and then closing Rawr.


Sorry, I can't seem to reproduce it. Will try later on with a fresh install and see what happens.
Coordinator
Apr 8, 2008 at 6:08 AM
Very bottom chart. "Relative Stat Values".
Apr 8, 2008 at 7:41 AM

Astrylian wrote:
Very bottom chart. "Relative Stat Values".

Ok found it.

Just to clarify for everyone that like me has never seen it.

On the drop down list where you normally select which slot you wish to list items for in the right pane - that drop down contains a lot more than just the slots. Including charts for enchants and how much different stats are worth.
Apr 8, 2008 at 10:21 AM
Edited Apr 8, 2008 at 10:50 AM
Optimizer seems to get stuck with Duplicitous Disguise. I guess it starts with optimizing the head slot and somehow misses T4 for set bonus somehow. Tried it several times with every piece of gear available and it never found a 2xt4 + 4xt6 combination although that's the best there is ^^

--edit--

Ok just ignore this post, I didnt select any available gems or enchants.
Interesting: best gear in game doesnt seem to include 2 piece t4 anymore even though everybody at elitestjerks includes it in their "best dps gear available" list post 2.4 ^^
Coordinator
Apr 8, 2008 at 4:21 PM
It depends on buffs and other calculation options, I believe. At the very very high end, when every item in the game is available, yes, 2T4 finally drops out. That's not til after farming Kil'Jaeden for months though.
Apr 8, 2008 at 7:32 PM

Rooted wrote:
My thoughts after a few hours of using b13.1

Optimizer
=========
Doesn't do what I want it to do.
I'm a feral tank. Among my gear I have T4 Shoulders and Gloves. The T4 Shoulders have a +defence enchant.
When I try to optimize my gear for kitty dps, I can't seem to say that the T4 shoulders have the +defence enchant, and that my other shoulders have the +crit enchant. It's not an option to change enchant on my T4 shoulders, since I'm primarily a tank.
However, I wonder if it's still worth it to use the T4 Shouders with +defence enchant in order to get the set bonus.

Almost same thing with gems. Here I want to select one item to use with the optimizer, but Rawr just wants to select all items with the same id (but with different gems) for optimization. I have some items gemmed with +stamina and +defence gems. I can't change gems on them, but still want to include them as possible items for kitty gear.




Hopefully we can find a better long term solution, but you can do what you want to do right now. Basically, you want to make a copy of the shoulders with the enchant and the gems built in to the item stats, then select no available shoulder enchants.

1. Select edit on the item you want to make set version for (Mantle of Malorne)
2. Press Duplicate.
3. Change the name to Mantle of Malorne - Tank
4. Change each socket to None and the socket bonus to None.
5. For each gem, add it to the stats. Lets say you have 2 solid stars and a 10 dodge/15 def enchant. Add 24 stamina (49 total), 10 dodge, 15 defense and 3 crit (for the socket bonus).
6. Make sure you leave the gem fields blank.
7. Set the item id to something between 90000-100000 (so update wont revert your changes).

Do the same thing for your kitty setup shoulders. Make sure you have no enchants enabled for the optimizer.

This should do what you are trying to do. Hopefully we can come up with a better long term solution, but this should help in the short term.
Apr 8, 2008 at 10:15 PM

Hopefully we can find a better long term solution, but you can do what you want to do right now. Basically, you want to make a copy of the shoulders with the enchant and the gems built in to the item stats, then select no available shoulder enchants.

1. Select edit on the item you want to make set version for (Mantle of Malorne)
2. Press Duplicate.
3. Change the name to Mantle of Malorne - Tank
4. Change each socket to None and the socket bonus to None.
5. For each gem, add it to the stats. Lets say you have 2 solid stars and a 10 dodge/15 def enchant. Add 24 stamina (49 total), 10 dodge, 15 defense and 3 crit (for the socket bonus).
6. Make sure you leave the gem fields blank.
7. Set the item id to something between 90000-100000 (so update wont revert your changes).

Do the same thing for your kitty setup shoulders. Make sure you have no enchants enabled for the optimizer.

This should do what you are trying to do. Hopefully we can come up with a better long term solution, but this should help in the short term.


Thanks. Silly that I didn't think of this solution myself. That will solve my issues! /cheer
Apr 8, 2008 at 10:40 PM
How does Rawr determine when a set bonus is active? If I take some Malorne items, duplicate them and change their id - will Rawr still understand that the item contributes to the set bonus? It seems that way, but I want to be sure how I can change an item and still have the optimizer understand it.
Coordinator
Apr 8, 2008 at 11:55 PM
Yeah, there are a few properties of items that aren't visible on the editor, including what Set an item belongs to. Those are preserved when an item is duplicated though, so yeah, just be sure to duplicate, not create a new item.
Apr 13, 2008 at 6:09 PM
Just a general Rawr question: Is 1-roll or 2-roll hit calculation used in Rawr?
Coordinator
Apr 13, 2008 at 6:43 PM
Depends on the attack. See Toskk's DPS method for details.
Apr 13, 2008 at 7:16 PM
As a mage (with fireball) it would be ...? The page about Toskk's DPS method I found is too long for such a short question so I would be very gratefull for a "1" or "2" answer :)
Coordinator
Apr 13, 2008 at 8:47 PM
Ahh, I thought you were talking Cat. I couldn't tell you, for Mage. Kavan?
Coordinator
Apr 13, 2008 at 10:05 PM
Rawr.Mage uses 2-roll calculations.
Apr 13, 2008 at 10:16 PM
That's good! In e.g. DrDamage (the addon) you would have to manually activate 2-roll calculations. Kind of a newb check :P