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[Rawr.Rogue] Status in 2.2.6

Topics: Rawr.Rogue
Jun 5, 2009 at 7:49 AM

Recent updates

  • Modeled SnD uptime (not entirely accurate, but gives an idea of how much SnD time you will lose with the current rotation)
  • Added Feint & Glyph of Feint
  • Added dodge and parry to display
  • Added crit from buff options
  • Modeled Savage Combat
  • Modeled FindWeakness
  • Modeled Hunger For Blood Damage Bonus
  • Modeled Turn the Tables
  • Modeled glyph of Blade Flurry
  • Modeled glyph of Adrenaline Rush
  • Modeled glyph of SnD
  • Modeled Glyph of Rupture
  • Modeled Glyph of Backstab
  • Modeled Seal Fate
  • Modeled Murder
  • Fixed bug where switching talents would not update talent bonus calculation
  • fixed bug where find weakness was double counted
  • fixed OH white attack speed bug
  • Fixed issue where rogue model would not be selected after loading from Armory
  • Fixed calc for Energy Regen

Still Need to be modeled

  • SnD haste bonus based on uptime (currently modeled at 100%)
  • Loss of Deadly Poison DPS due to Envenom
  • Bonus from Master Poisoner Buff / Ferocious Inspiration Buff / Master Poisoner Talent
  • Killing Spree /Glyph of Killing Spree
  • Vigor / Glyph of Vigor
  • Fan of Knives / Glyph of Fan of Knives
  • Expose Armor/ Glyph of Expose Armor
  • Shadow Dance
  • Preparation
  • Premeditation
  • Cold Blood
  • Tricks of the trade

Really Low Priority Items

  • riposte
  • Ghostly strike / Glyph of Ghostly Strike


If you find any bugs, any feature requests, or have items you want prioritized please either respond to this topic, or create a new issue.

Constructive Feedback and Suggestions are welcome!

Jun 5, 2009 at 11:23 AM

Hi !

Could you please add Berserker as a possible enchant for Daggers as it isn't now ? Thanks in Advance !

In the same time, a lot of Trinkets doesn't work great : Blood of The Old God, a powerful Trinket, under some Jewellery figurines ...


By, and thanks a lot for this powerful program !!

Jun 5, 2009 at 5:10 PM

ok.  I see why Berserker is not being listed in the available enchants.  It's probably the same reason as the trinkets.   I'll  try to get this in the next release (no promises though).  =)

Jun 6, 2009 at 1:06 AM

thanks a lot in advance ;)

Jun 8, 2009 at 4:05 PM


Nice new release but...

If I try to edit the gemming template the program hits an error, When I try to run Optimization/build upgrade list-thing to find best possible gear, it gets to about 2% and then it hits an error and stops.


Jun 8, 2009 at 7:49 PM

Bug report: Sword Spec DPS is reporting crazy numbers (2201.78  DPS in my case)

Jun 9, 2009 at 7:05 AM

atpl:  I fixed the bug in sword spec.  basically the 5th talent point gave a 50% chance of an extra attack instead of 5% (.5 vs .05).  Makes a slight difference in the calc.  =)

Iruna:  I did add the berserker enchant.  I looked at the trinkets, and they are going to require some special handling for their procs and how to deal with them.  Some of the other models have the basic code i need, so I should be able to "steal with pride".

roguer:  I'm getting the same error when doing the Optimization/build.  Its saying something (e.g. a item slot) isn't filled, but the only item that isn't filled is the projectile bag.  I'm going to have to dig into this one some more as well.  Also, when you're editing the gemming templates, what are you editing? custom, epic, etc?  do you always get the error, just on certain gems, just in a particular spot?  I poked around and couldn't find anything that jumped out at me.  I'm hoping to narrow down where to look. 


All- Thanks for the feedback!



Jun 12, 2009 at 10:55 PM

If these are already known issues, I'm sorry, but here they are:

-All settings in the "Options" tab are not saved with your character, so they return to default every time the program is closed and reopened.

-After running the optimize tool, any changes made to the settings in the "Options" tab are not instantly reflected in the "Comparisons" window to the right.

Also could I suggest in the "Refine Types of Items Listed" to make separate options for weapon type in MH and OH. For example, it would be beneficial when trying the backstab setting in the Options tab to eliminate everything but daggers for MH, but have multiple weapon options for OH.

Any idea why doing Refresh Item Data from Armory leaves out ArPen on gear? When you do Refresh Item Data from Wowhead it finds it. A specific example is Leggings of the Immortal Night.


Jun 12, 2009 at 11:46 PM

@Shundin: ArP on gear being left off is a global issue that has to do with the Armory not providing the data correctly, Astrylian has been working on a solution for this for some time. For now, you will have to add the ArP manually or refresh from wowhead if that corrects the problem for you. Mind you that socket bonuses for many/most items have the same issue, each will have to be edited manually.

Jun 24, 2009 at 11:17 AM

Pardon, that's when trying to build an upgrade list. Optimizing current available gear is working for me.

Jun 24, 2009 at 3:06 PM

First off all: Great work!

But I have some questions/issues. Sorry, if i might have missed any documentation about those.


- Is Mutilate Spec already implemented? When providing my Spec and Gear and chosing Backstab instead of Mutilate, my DPS increases by 500. When chosing Finishers, Eviscerate performs better than Envenom. When chosing a cycle the 4s/4r/4en Cycle is outperformed by 4s/5r/2en (which at least according to the EJ/Spreadsheet calculations shouldn't be the case)

- Is it possible, that the weapon speed is not included in damage calculations? Rawr suggests me very slow Offhands and fast Mainhands in the higher ratings, which I kind of doubt would be correct.

- When upgrading my gear it suggests putting my MH in OH slot, which I can't do, since I don't have it twice

- Trinket Procs aren't included?

Jun 25, 2009 at 1:19 AM
Edited Jun 25, 2009 at 1:19 AM

I've been trying to track down the optimizer issue.  For me, it always gets stuck on the Seal of Valgarde, but I haven't been able to track it down to exactly what is throwing the error.

The mutilate spec is implemented, but the loss of deadly poison due to envenom is not, so the 2e assumes a full stack of DP.  Also, Rawr.Rogue models the minimum CP/energy/CP moves necessary to perform a task.  EJ does the "+" modeling, so EJ gets a better accounting of damage.  So Rawr.Rogue might be adding an extra mutilate to go from 4/4/2 to 4/4/4.  That can be a few extra seconds in a cycle duration, lowering the overall DPS. 

Modeling envenom properly is one of my top 2 tasks, but it takes about a day per calc to reverse-engineer the EJ spreadsheet, so I haven't completed it yet.  once implemented, it should close the gap between EJ & Rawr quite a bit.

I just did a commit yesterday on the trinket procs, so they should start showing up in the next release (2.2.8?).



good feedback!  ty!


Jun 25, 2009 at 10:09 AM

I am really amazed about your work. Basically this could become the most important "theory crafting addon" rogues will ever need for pve purposes.

When experimenting yesterday, i noticed something weird happening, when changing the 3rd cycle from 2 to 5 and back while being in the EP tab. While doing so the DPS value for the xx2 cycle changed, when switching back and forth. Also the EP value for Expertise drasticly increased to 1,5 the agility value and stayed there even when chaning the cycle back (for comparism, spreadsheet lists Exp about 0,8 Agi value)

I also noticed that "target is valid for murder" does not increased my dps

- Major Armor Debuff does not seem to increase DPS for me

- Haste% Buff does not seem to increase DPS

- Heroic Presence, Minor Armor Debuff don't seem to do so either

- One very small issue: When I spec Master Poisoner you might set the checkmark under Buffs to "yes" (though this REALLY is no problem for me to do myself)

Overall my rawr DPS is roundabout 4,8K buffed whereas in the spreadsheet it would be something around 5,5-6K

- Berskerker Enchant is not yet implemented either?

- I assume you calculate Cold Blood to be used with Envenom on Cooldown? Or might I have missed an option for CB?

Jul 1, 2009 at 10:36 AM
Edited Jul 1, 2009 at 11:26 AM

I picked around a bit and found out that going into Refining Item Selection and turning off "Misc" on Offhand/Misc allowed the upgrade list to run without error.
From the items it's hanging on (Seal of Valgarde, Tome of something-or-other) it appears to be having problems with non-weapon OH items.
Turning off "Misc", however, is not a viable work-around, because it also turns off neck, back, finger and trinket upgrades. Is there a way to take those non-weapon OH's off the list, or any reason not to?

Jul 1, 2009 at 11:11 AM
Edited Jul 1, 2009 at 11:25 AM

-edited above-

Jul 1, 2009 at 5:28 PM

It's likely because there is a missing null pointer check in your calculations when dealing with offhands.  I know that I was having BuildUpgradeList fail for fury warriors when considering non-weapon offhands, but mine was because white attacks per second was set to 1f / (character.MainHand.Speed*...), which was yielding a division by zero error.

Check all references to character.OffHand, and ensure that you're not making a similar mistake :)

Jul 2, 2009 at 2:09 AM


I want to tell you that some Trinkets for the Rogue Module are still not working properly ...

Thanks in advance.

Jul 3, 2009 at 8:41 AM

Sorry for the delay.  My Win7 beta expired, and it wouldn't let upgrade to the RC, so I've had to re-install EVERYTHING.


"...set to 1f / (character.MainHand.Speed*...), which was yielding a division by zero error."

Ding!  I think that fixed it.  The DPS warrior module copied code from the rogue module, so a quick check, and there it was.  i tried optimizing a few different characters with different builds, and they all succeeded.


Iruna - which trinket(s)?  I'll try to take a look this weekend.


Jul 3, 2009 at 8:57 PM
Edited Jul 3, 2009 at 8:58 PM

Seems to be a glitch with Weapon Expertise in the Combat tree. Two points in it grants 10 Expertise which Rawr shows in the talent tree section but its calculating it as giving 20 points. My Rogue has 25 expertise (slightly short of capped at 26) however Rawr shows him having 35.

Jul 4, 2009 at 1:46 AM

Yep, it was being double counted.  Should be fixed in the next version. 

Jul 5, 2009 at 3:20 AM

I think a lot of Trinket don't use there procs to be rated as better than others :


Darkmoon Card: Greatness for Exemple is under Mighty Alchemist's Stone ...and behind Bandit's Insignia !!!!!!


Hope it will help !!

Jul 6, 2009 at 6:54 PM
Edited Jul 6, 2009 at 9:37 PM


I have been testing a Mut spec. I noticed that after selecting Mut for CPG sword, fist & mace weapons are still on the MH upgrade list. Also when I run the optimizer it suggests a MH fist weapon I have.

Don't I have to have a dagger in my MH when using Mut for CPG? I am using 2.2.9

Thanks :)


Jul 6, 2009 at 8:39 PM
Edited Jul 6, 2009 at 9:10 PM

For mutilate, in game, you have to have a dagger in the MH & OH.  

The rogue module currently doesn't mandate which weapons have to be equipped to use a CPG (so you can backstab and mutilate with swords).  I've debated on fixing it, but made fixing it a low priority because of the interaction that combo box would have between weapon swaps, hemo, BS available with Dagger/Sword, but not sword dagger, mutilate requiring 2 daggers, etc. 

I'll put it on the to-do list, so we keep track of it.


This topic is a little out of date, so I've created a new one for 2.2.9+.  Its located at

Jul 7, 2009 at 4:46 PM
Edited Jul 7, 2009 at 7:23 PM

I am seeing some very very significant differences between the EJ model and number and the Rawr combat model:

1. EJ places the Bandits Insignia Trinket towards the bottom of the DPS...Rawr places it near the top.

2. EJ places the Mirror of Truth towards the middle or top of the DPS, ...Rawr places it near the bottom.

3. My projected DPS with no buffs, no food, basically target 2724 in the spreadsheet.....4670 in Rawr.

The difference in projected DPS is stagering.  I am largely Naxx 25 geared and have to say against the elite target dummy...the 2724 using the 3s5r is much closer to reality.  Without full raid buffs, 4670 is simply not feasible against a single target.

Additionally...something is wrong with the stats in is listing my AP as 5083..the spreadsheet..which is correct lists it as 3812.

Jul 7, 2009 at 6:10 PM

This is most likely due to the already known Savage Combat talent bug if you have it. It was giving 10x more AP than was intended. Please see the thread [Bug] Rogue AP too high.

Jul 7, 2009 at 7:28 PM

Thanks...the Savage Combat bug would explain the DPS variation and the AP error.  I am still curious as to the vast difference in the Trinket values between EJ and Rawr if anyone has any insight.

Jul 8, 2009 at 3:15 AM

There is a bug in the trinket procs at the moment, so anything with a damage-enhancing proc is going to be undervalued.  Its listed in the 2.2.9 thread.