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Mage "Main Hand/Off-Hand" or "Two-Handed"

Topics: Rawr.Mage
Jul 19, 2009 at 1:10 AM

Excuse my newbieness here.  I'm going to use a specific example because I'm not sure how to word this:

Let's say I have "Life and Death" equipped in main hand (758 rating) and "Leviathan Fueling Manual" equipped in off-hand (250 rating).

Now a two-handed weapon drops.  It's "Intensity" (907 rating).  Does Rawr only look at the rating based on the weapon? Or does it actually combine the ratings for main/off vs two-handed?  Or is the rating for the Fueling Manual figured into the overall rating of the Life and Death?

Life and Death (758) + Fueling Manual (250) = 1008 DPS rating versus Intensity (907)

I'm not sure if that all made sense. >.>

Jul 19, 2009 at 2:15 AM

The value of 2H weapons is correctly reduced based on not getting to wear an offhand item with them. ie, Intensity > Life and Death + Fueling Manual, with the numbers you listed.

Jul 19, 2009 at 11:25 AM

I'd say currently comparing 1H/OH and 2H in the comparison charts is not meaningful because 1H and 2H both use the same enchant.

Jul 19, 2009 at 10:25 PM

Staffs can get the +81sp enchant,
one handed weapons can get max + 63sp

not the same enchant.
and if you can get that staff "endless winter" with 700+ sp than obviously thats guna leave any 1h oh combo in the dust. 

my two pennies worth - actavia

Jul 19, 2009 at 10:45 PM

...That's exactly what Kavan just said.

Jul 20, 2009 at 8:54 AM

Hmm. Kavan said they would "both use the same enchant"... actavia was pointing out that's not so, as there are staff-only enchants better than 1h 'chants. Lose some sleep getting 2.2.10 out, Astrylian? ;-)

I'm also a bit confused by the original answer. 1H + OH > 2H, but the 2H is still better? Is there a general ratio to use to quickly figure out how a 1H/OH realistically rates against a 2H in terms of Rawr's scores?

Jul 20, 2009 at 9:20 AM

Please, listen very carefully.

If Rawr says that an item is worth X dps, then it really does mean that you would gain X dps, going from that item's slot empty, to equipping that item. ie, the item is worth X dps.

That hold true for weapons, nothing is different. If you have any confusion, use the Optimizer.

Kavan was pointing out that the gear comparison charts use the equipped enchant, however different items for the main hand can support different enchants, so it isn't meaningful. Again, just use the Optimizer.

Jul 21, 2009 at 9:33 PM

"The value of 2H weapons is correctly reduced based on not getting to wear an offhand item with them."

Actually, the value of ALL weapons are reduced when an off hand is equip'd.

Start up a blank mage.  Put Life and Death in the main weapon.  Note Life and Death is worth 69.90, and Intensity is worth 127.14.  Leviathan Fueling Manual is worth 32.24.

Now add Leviathan's Fueling Manual to the off hand.  Theoretically, Life and Death should now be worth more, and the Leviathan Fueling Manual and Intensity still should be worth the same.  Indeed, Life and Death is now up to 76.02, and the Leviathan Fueling Manual remains at 32.24.  However, Rawr reduces Intensity to 101.02.

Now here's where the interesting math comes in.  Consider the values from just Life and Death active.  You would think that the Fueling Manual would up the value of Life and Death by 32.24.  This is not the case, instead it only increased by 76.02 - 69.90 = 6.12, which is 32.24 - 6.12 = 26.12 lower than expected.  Intensity dropped 127.14 - 101.02 = 26.12 in value.  26.12, hmm!  Spot checking the values of other weapons, both one hand and two hand, it appears that equipping Leviathan Fueling Manual is dropping the value of ALL weapons, both 1H and 2H, by exactly 26.12.  Using the Urn of Lost Memories, all weapons drop exactly 23.00 in value.

This is with no enchants, no gems, no talents, no buffs, and no other gear active, just a new mage.

So, the question is why is there a value drop on weapons when you fill the off hand from an empty slot?


On a related note, it would be nice to be able to specify the enchants you'd put on certain types of weapons, or better yet have Rawr figure it out on its own. :)

Jul 21, 2009 at 10:13 PM

roncli, we are talking DPSWarr, not Mages :P

Jul 21, 2009 at 10:36 PM


I think you're looking for the thread at

Jul 22, 2009 at 3:23 PM

wow... you are totally right. the naming on both is really close...