Warlock - Set Bonus & Gemming - General questions

Topics: Rawr.Warlock
Jan 17, 2010 at 10:21 AM
Edited Jan 17, 2010 at 10:21 AM

First, I would like to say thank you for all of the hard work and time that everyone has put into Rawr.
I realize that it is still a work in progress, but this has been one of the most useful applications for tuning characters that I have found so far.
I've read through the issue tracking and discussion sections, but have not been able to find the answer to a couple of questions pertaining to Warlocks and Rawr.

My first question is in regards to item set bonuses and optimization. I am wondering if there is a way to verify whether or not the optimization process is actually taking into account the set bonus gained from having multiple set pieces when comparing to all of the equipment available.

Case in point: The character I'm working on has both the 2 piece Tier 9 and 2 piece Tier 8 set bonuses on the gear currently equipped. However, Rawr indicates that I should forgo the Tier 9 set bonus using Kel'Thuzad's Hood of Conquest to equip a Valorous Plagueheart Circlet. (The overall dps indicated by Rawr [116.04 dps for the T9 vs 169.40 dps from the Circlet] seems to be extremely wide of the mark considering that even at base stat comparison with no gemming the Circlet is inferior by 520 Mana, 18 Spell power, and 1.77% Critical. The only visible benefit would be the 1.17% Haste.

If the optimization is truly taking into account the set bonuses garnered from multiple same set pieces, then I don't understand the math behind the itemization, and would like to know if there is a way that I can double-check the math beyond equipping something and taking it into a raid setting where my friends are counting on me to perform at my maximum.

[Side note: I'm having a hard time believing that the Tier 9 2 piece bonus and higher base stats are outweighed by 1.17% spell haste.]

Secondly, I am interested in how strongly Rawr takes character stats into account when suggesting gem combinations to increase DPS from gear. Is there any way to verify this, or to force Rawr to disregard gem combinations if they exceed a stat that is already at maximum and would not be lowered based on the recommendation?

Case in point: The character currently has a hit rating at 547 unbuffed, and purely from gear. (No hit gems/food/etc) However, the gear selection is showing that the dps would be higher for the Conqueror's Deathbringer Robe with 2 +23 spell power gems (148.85 dps) if I were to replace one of the +23 spell power with a +12 spell power/+10 hit rating (shown as 153.45 dps) gem. It would seem that the itemization is not taking into account that the character is already at 3.85% hit over the hard cap, and that the % to hit is not being lowered by the changing of this piece of gear.

I apologize if this was a bit long winded, but I wanted to convey my questions as concisely as possible. Any assistance with this is greatly appreciated.

Below is the XML I have saved for this character. (Again, my apologies, but I'm unsure how to just attach the saved .xml to this discussion.) The customizations I've done include the current talent build, pet selection, spell priority,and  raid buffs. Selection of gear currently available with Raiding instances my guild has not progressed to have been filtered out.

  <?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8" ?>
- <Character xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" xmlns:xsd="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema">
  <ActiveBuffs>Sanctified Retribution</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Arcane Intellect</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Judgements of the Wise</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Mana Tide Totem</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Wrath of Air Totem</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Totem of Wrath (Spell Power)</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Power Word: Fortitude</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Improved Power Word: Fortitude</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Mark of the Wild</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Improved Mark of the Wild</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Blessing of Kings</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Blessing of Kings (Str/Sta Bonus)</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Fel Armor</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Grand Firestone</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Heroic Presence</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Totem of Wrath</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Judgement of Wisdom</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Improved Faerie Fire</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Flask of the Frost Wyrm</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Fish Feast</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Kel'Thuzad's Regalia 2 Piece Bonus</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Deathbringer Garb 2 Piece Bonus</ActiveBuffs>
- <CalculationOptions>
- <item>
- <key>
- <value>
  <string><?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-16"?> <CalculationOptionsWarlock xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" xmlns:xsd="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema"> <TargetLevel>83</TargetLevel> <AffEffectsNumber>0</AffEffectsNumber> <Duration>300</Duration> <Latency>100</Latency> <Replenishment>100</Replenishment> <JoW>100</JoW> <Pet>Imp</Pet> <LTUsePercent>0</LTUsePercent> <UseInfernal>false</UseInfernal> <UseImmoAura>false</UseImmoAura> <UseDecimation>false</UseDecimation> <PTR>false</PTR> <SpellPriority> <string>Curse of Agony</string> <string>Immolate</string> <string>Corruption</string> <string>Conflagrate</string> <string>Shadowflame</string> <string>Chaos Bolt</string> <string>Searing Pain</string> </SpellPriority> <ManaPot>4</ManaPot> </CalculationOptionsWarlock></string>
  <OptimizationRequirements />
- <Boss>
  <Stuns />
  <Fears />
  <Roots />
  <Moves />
  <Disarms />
  <Comment>No comments have been written for this Boss.</Comment>
  <Attacks />
  <CustomItemInstances />
Jan 17, 2010 at 1:10 PM
Edited Jan 17, 2010 at 1:21 PM

Which version of Rawr are you running btw? I'm going to assume v2.3.5

Without going into a lengthy explantion of how the optimizer works - the quick answer is that it will attempt to find the best gear (and gem) combination from all the items that have been marked as available. If an item is part of a tier set, the setbonuses will automatically be evaluated when the optimizer encounters other pieces from that same tier set.

Having said that - the problem (in this case) is that pets are not implemented in the 2.3.5 warlock module, therefore the T9 2piece bonus (increases your pet's critical strike chance with all its attacks by 10%) is not being valued correctly. The Valorous Plagueheart Circlet item is being rated higher because it does not have +hit (your character is over the hit cap, so the other stats become more valuable).

So in a nutshell - the optimizer is working correctly - the warlock module just needs more updating (and I'm working on it as fast as I can).

I've just spent the better part of the last 2 weeks triple checking all spells (under all the major pve specs) [WTB MOAR TALENT SPECZ] to make sure their damage calculations are correct before starting on the Pets. I wont have this finished in time for rawr 2.3.6 (which is imminent btw) :/ - but at least the warlock calculations are correct now.


Jan 17, 2010 at 10:06 PM

So,  does this mean we won't be able to use it for 2pc set bonuses for another two weeks then (when next release is out)?

Jan 17, 2010 at 10:14 PM

We can indeed make releases more frequently, when there are big fixes/changes/additions. I'm sure Rawr.Warlock supporting pets would qualify for that.

Jan 19, 2010 at 2:34 PM

Thank you very much for the response. This completely makes sense to me as far as the pet module and the set bonuses are concerned.
And please let me know (if you'd like) which talent sets you would like to see. As I'm recently unemployed, I could contribute assistance as a Warlock mannequin since I have no idea how to code. *Grin*

I am also still interested in how Rawr weighs the gemming recommendations.
After having done further research, I believe that (in my case) it's giving very significant weight to haste, but I'm not sure where the threshold is that it favors haste over spell power.
I think I need to do more digging to find out if there is a spell power cap.

Again, thank you very much for the response and all of the effort that you've put into Rawr. It's sincerely appreciated.


Jan 19, 2010 at 2:53 PM

Rawr weighs a gem the same way it weighs everything else in the program:

What would your score be with [thing] versus without it?

Every value you see in the program is a full calculation of your character.

Feb 1, 2010 at 6:45 PM

Speaking of warlock set bonuses, where in the Tools/Edit Items... box are the set bonuses shown?  Specifically, I look a the Dark Coven items, and while I expected to see numbers under the Warlock section of the Combat Values list box on the righthand side, they are all set to zero.  If this is not where the set bonuses are annotated, where are they?   (And of course THANKS for the work on this great application.)

Feb 1, 2010 at 7:24 PM

Set Bonuses are pulled out of Buffs. To activate the set Bonus, you need to have x number of items that have that set name equipped.

These cannot be manually edited without recompiling source.